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My first question
Here is the way I framed the first question I posed to the group, and
the resulting posts:
Current Forum: Ongoing Course Discussion Read 14 times
Date: Thu May 3 2001 8:52 pm
Author: Mary (the teacher)
Subject: Pop culture appropriation of religious symbols
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Those of you who are having a hard time feeling Debra's point (which is
different from understanding it), can you think of some examples of ways
in which pop culture has appropriated Christian religious symbols that
you find offensive?
This is not meant to be equivalent in any way, but for some reason the
resonance occurred to me: in the last few days there is a Minnesota legislator
who has been getting a lot of play in the media for condemning the Dalai
Lama's visit to MN, and particularly for the possibility that he might
address the legislature. He has talked about his objections by claiming
that Buddhism is a cult, and by making other claims about Christianity.
I find his claims about Christianity embarrassing at least, and offensive
at worst, and I am deeply ashamed of his characterization of Buddhism.
Clearly, this guy doesn't understand, and hasn't tried to, Buddhism. He
also doesn't show much insight into the heart of Christianity. I find
this deeply problematic.
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Current Forum: Ongoing Course Discussion Read 10 times
Date: Fri May 4 2001 12:24 am
Author: Ben
Subject: Re: Pop culture appropriation of religious symbols
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Your suggestion immediately makes me think of things like "The Simpson's"
and their character Reverand Lovejoy, or the first "South Park"
episode where Jesus and Santa Claus get into a fight and Brian Boitano
(sp?) comes and breaks up the fight. At the end of that episode the kids
are all excited becaus they met . . . Brian Boitano. Those are things
I've heard others get offended by. However, I have not found offense in
them at all.
I've been a little concerned by the report of some of the comments made
by Charlie Ward of the NBA New York Knicks in which he was quoted as saying
that the blood of Jesus was on the Jews. I haven't read his entire interview,
but I suspect to a certain extent this quote has been taken out of context.
Surprisingly, I found a strong defense of him at cnnsi.com by a football
writer. It doesn't excuse what he's said. However, to put himself into
a position to be slightly misrepresented in such a way that you make all
of Christianity look bad is not good. In a way I was a bit embarressed.
Probably the closest I've been to being offended was watching "Politically
Incorrect" when one of the guests was Marilyn Manson and it was mentioned
that he's been known to rip pages out of the Bible during a concert and
wipe his butt with it. However, I can't say as if I made it over to the
side of offended because I could chalk that up to several different things,
including his ignorance. So after rambling this long, I'm realizing I
probably need to give this a bit more thought.
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Current Forum: Ongoing Course Discussion Read 10 times
Date: Fri May 4 2001 9:35 am
Author: Jack
Subject: Re: Pop culture appropriation of religious symbols
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ben
I went to a Manson concert and he did the very thing you were talking
about. In a way I almost found it comical. He so trying to get people
upset by doing all these offensive acts, but my faith was strong enough
to know it was all for show. This is the way he sells tickets. I did not
like it but he has the right to do it.
jeremy
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Current Forum: Ongoing Course Discussion Read 13 times
Date: Tue May 8 2001 9:37 am
Author: Mary (the teacher)
Subject: Re: Pop culture appropriation of religious symbols
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Ok, it doesn't cross over into the offensive because it seems stupid (I
think I agree on the stupidity part of this!). But what if his actions
led fans of his to break into churches and rip up bibles? In this day
and age we play with so many symbols, and are so little disturbed by most
of this play, that it's hard to find analogies. But there were ways in
which early Christians took Jewish symbols and painted them in a negative
light, causing actual Christians to physically harm actual Jews. That
is, the harm was happening on the material level, not just symbolically.
Some people believe that the way in which popular culture commodifies
everything has caused irreparable harm to Christianity, but making it
seem like a faith in which you can "purchase" community rather
than struggle into it... This is more rambling than I intended, can any
of you see what I"m trying to get at?
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Current Forum: Ongoing Course Discussion Read 9 times
Date: Tue May 8 2001 2:56 pm
Author: Sharon
Subject: Re: Pop culture appropriation of religious symbols
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I think I understand what you're saying in the first part ofyour comments.
We haven't seen "material" persecution of Christians, only regradation
of our symbols. I occassionally hear some fear coming from the religious
right that material persecution will come next - who knows? It seems to
me that's one of the dangers of holding anything sacred, or attaching
symbolic meaning to anything. It makes you vulnerable to the extent of
the strength of the identification between symbol and reality. I am offended
by what Marilyn Manson does to the Bible - or maybe disgusted is a better
word.
I don't know if this applies to the discussion about appropriaing another
groups symbols, but it bothers me to see the cross worn in public by people
who are behaving in what appear to be non-Christian ways.
And I totally agree with what you said about Rep. Lindner. Our school
district had some experience with him a few years ago. This current flap
is entirely in keeping with what went before!
I dind't follow what you said about "purchasing" community.
Can you say some more?
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Current Forum: Ongoing Course Discussion Read 7 times
Date: Thu May 10 2001 8:41 am
Author: Julie
Subject: Re: Pop culture appropriation of religious symbols
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I think some of this commodification of Christianity plays out in that
people presume that if some one displays the trappings or the accessories
of "Christian" life then they must in fact be a good christian.
I think it is possible for bonds to form through the commonality of stuff--as
in having these "things" in common. But the true power of Christian
community comes through having other things in common--sharing faith journeys
and struggles, that we are baptized children of God, and fellowship through
worship, to name a few.
I'm not convinced that it has caused irreparable harm to Christianity--it
is kind of a get in line thing because there are plenty of other realities
perpetrated in the name of Christianity that jeopradize its reputation.
I also believe that there may be cycles of response to these types of
matters and that perhaps there will be a backlash--consider the popularity
of "Practicing the Faith"--evidence of people craving deeper
ways of integrating faith and life.
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